Forums - Silver Samurai/Omega Red/Thanos...Evidence shows they may be top tier Show all 32 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- Silver Samurai/Omega Red/Thanos...Evidence shows they may be top tier (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=12256) Posted by TimeFlip on 04:12:2001 04:15 PM: Silver Samurai Silver Samurai is like Cable in that he needs meter to be effective. Here's my team with him: Spiral/SilverSam(Ground)/Sentinel His Ground assist helps lock the enemy while Spiral Hp's and throws swords. So I feel his best assist is Ground. He can chip well with ShurikenxxHyper Shuriken, as well as being able to use an assist such as Spiral Projectile. His Ramei-Ken super is mashable, and can connect off of cyclops AAA. It is mainly used as an assist killer. He also has a crouch cancel infinite that's really hard to do Omega Red Omega Red is a good battery character. He can also play keepaway with his retracted Omega Strikes. So here's my team: Omega Red(Throw)/Storm/Cable Omega Red has a good AAA and a good projectile. Basically the way I play with him is call a projectile and omega strike. Mix it up with Jumping Hp and c.Hk and he's pretty good. His throw assist also sets up......AHVB!!! Thanos Thanos is another mini-cable. He is a good assist killer with multiple Power supers. He also has a decent infinite.(It could probably connect off of sentinel ground and storm projectile but I never tested it yet) He has a good dash assist and a capture assist too. So what do you think??? Posted by Hoe Muffin on 04:12:2001 04:28 PM: I love Omega, and I think he's a ton of fun to use, but he is NOT top tier. He's pretty high up in tier 2, but he's not top tier. His AAA assist is mediocre at best, it leaves him wide open after it (then again, who chooses Omega for his assists?) and he dies horribly against Sentinel Blackheart. And Cable can AHVB after Omega Strikes. His chipping game leaves a bit to be desired. Still, he rocks! Thanos I still cannot see as being top tier, probably because without supers, he sucks beyond belief. His assists are asking for him to die, and he dies to Doom Keepaway and the like. Posted by Voodoo on 04:12:2001 04:54 PM: You seem to have some strange notions about what a "top tier" is. Silver Samurai - He gets *WORKED* by keepaway (a strat which he lacks). Without an assist to help him, he can't get in close at all. He can't build level worth a damn, and needs to be to any kind of a threat. Omega Red - Cable can AHVB off 95% of the assist in the game, so that's a null point. He's good battery, but a throw assist (his best) is just for a surprise factor. Thanos - Mini-Cable...because he can chain supers? Talk about terrible start up. The odds of you *ever* hitting a Storm/Magneto/Spiral/etc with a Power Gem super is close to never. Thanos also has a non-existant keepaway game, which consists of uh...bubbles? Don't get me wrong, I personally enjoy using SS or Thanos from time to time, but there is *no way* they're top tier. They just don't have the versitility. Posted by Fakefist on 04:12:2001 04:58 PM: determining the top tier in a game as it evolves is more than finding similarities to the old tiers...linking supers is not comparable to cable, as the AHVB has one frame start up and punishes sooo much stuff, even some normal attacks. Top tier character means "I dominate and affect the way a game is played by my mere presence", which none of the people you listed do -although Omega Red comes closest. Posted by TimeFlip on 04:12:2001 05:01 PM: quote: Originally posted by Voodoo You seem to have some strange notions about what a "top tier" is. Silver Samurai - He gets *WORKED* by keepaway (a strat which he lacks). Without an assist to help him, he can't get in close at all. He can't build level worth a damn, and needs to be to any kind of a threat. Omega Red - Cable can AHVB off 95% of the assist in the game, so that's a null point. He's good battery, but a throw assist (his best) is just for a surprise factor. Thanos - Mini-Cable...because he can chain supers? Talk about terrible start up. The odds of you *ever* hitting a Storm/Magneto/Spiral/etc with a Power Gem super is close to never. Thanos also has a non-existant keepaway game, which consists of uh...bubbles? Don't get me wrong, I personally enjoy using SS or Thanos from time to time, but there is *no way* they're top tier. They just don't have the versitility. You makes some good points... I have to agree with you when you say that SilverSam can't play keep away, but he's really good close-up. I only use him when I play rush down characters. And Thanos, the Power Gem super has almost NO start-up. And it can hit after Magneto whiffs his launcher . And his Hp attacks are like Doom's; it's good at knocking people back. And I rarely use the bubbles . Posted by ThisGuileKillYa on 04:12:2001 05:04 PM: I have actually never used Thanos and have used Sam maybe twice. But Omega's one of my favs. I dunno about top tier, but hes good as hell Posted by That One Guy on 04:12:2001 05:37 PM: Interesting argument. I don't think they'd make "Top Tier" though. Posted by StiltMan on 04:12:2001 06:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hoe Muffin Thanos I still cannot see as being top tier, probably because without supers, he sucks beyond belief. His assists are asking for him to die, and he dies to Doom Keepaway and the like. Not quite. Basically any photon charges you throw on a Thanos with meter are going to get you sucked into a Soul Gem. It's pretty likely that the jumping fierce will net you the same fate. How much that's going to hurt will depend greatly on who Thano's second char is to nail you with the DHC, but if he's building a team based on making sure that hurts as much as possible (e.g. Sentinel or Juggernaut is the second character) that's probably going to smart. This is not to say that I think Thanos is top tier... but he can do a little more than you'd think. Posted by TimeFlip on 04:12:2001 06:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan Not quite. Basically any photon charges you throw on a Thanos with meter are going to get you sucked into a Soul Gem. It's pretty likely that the jumping fierce will net you the same fate. How much that's going to hurt will depend greatly on who Thano's second char is to nail you with the DHC, but if he's building a team based on making sure that hurts as much as possible (e.g. Sentinel or Juggernaut is the second character) that's probably going to smart. This is not to say that I think Thanos is top tier... but he can do a little more than you'd think. Interesting thought that Thanos may be a counter character to Doom. I'm sure a Reality Gem super would work here also. But what I like about the Soul Gem super is that it tracks the enemy. Posted by Fakefist on 04:12:2001 07:15 PM: the power gem is to slow too just counter with is the problem. You can combo it, of course. Maybe after a S. Fierce...I'm not sure of the priority of it, but the reach is excellent. If the priority is good/above average, you've got a solid poke XX power gem XX soul gem, which hurts. Posted by TimeFlip on 04:12:2001 07:29 PM: quote: Originally posted by TimeFlip Interesting thought that Thanos may be a counter character to Doom. I'm sure a Reality Gem super would work here also. But what I like about the Soul Gem super is that it tracks the enemy. Now that I think about, wouldn't a Soul Gem super counter a super jumping Blackheart??? Maybe Thanos is useful all... And Soul Gem comes out fastest, but Power Gem is second. They're both really fast though. Posted by AmScott on 04:12:2001 08:23 PM: quote: Originally posted by StiltMan Not quite. Basically any photon charges you throw on a Thanos with meter are going to get you sucked into a Soul Gem. It's pretty likely that the jumping fierce will net you the same fate. How much that's going to hurt will depend greatly on who Thano's second char is to nail you with the DHC, but if he's building a team based on making sure that hurts as much as possible (e.g. Sentinel or Juggernaut is the second character) that's probably going to smart. This is not to say that I think Thanos is top tier... but he can do a little more than you'd think. Exactly. I play a Juggernaut/Thanos/Venom team and almost all of Thanos's supers can nail Doom when he uses air photon charges (especially the G. Space). Posted by TimeFlip on 04:12:2001 08:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by AmScott Exactly. I play a Juggernaut/Thanos/Venom team and almost all of Thanos's supers can nail Doom when he uses air photon charges (especially the G. Space). But G. Space has a bit of a start up time...If Doom superjumps, the rocks will miss him though as Doom can Air Dash out the way. So some new thoughts: Crossup with Doom AAA and Thanos Space does a lot of chipping. And I'm trying to finetune Spiral/SilSam(Ground)/Sent(Ground) What I do is call swords, Dashing Hp+Assist, Teleport to the other side, Hp, throw swords, Call Sam,Push them into Sam with Hp, call swords and repeat... I still need to work on it though. Posted by silenttiger on 04:13:2001 03:30 PM: SS and Omega Red are very strong characters that often are discounted. They are definitely 2nd tier. As game play evolves, tiers are always subject to change. How much the tiers change depends on what character's are being played by key people and winning games (tournaments). Characters that I expect to go up in rankings and popularity as the play of the game evolves are: Cyclops Silver Samurai Omega Red Wolverine Capt. America Charlie These are all my opinion but it will be interesting to see what happens. The trouble with SS is that he relies on team structure more heavily than he should. I wish they had made him more dominating as an individual character. With the right team though, SS can wreak havoc. A lot of people don't play him which makes him a virtual unkown. For those that do play him, mastery of his quirks takes time. Posted by hachihyaku on 04:13:2001 04:42 PM: I definitely see SS and Omega Red moving up in the ranking, maybe not all the way up to top tier but definitely to the point of making a statement. The only things stopping them are SS's ineffectiveness at keepaway and reliance on assists, and Omega eats it after a coil whiff. (It doesn't matter if you're an expert at retracting them, they're out there for a LONG time.) Thanos I can't see. He's gutter trash without several levels of meter. Cable's top tier because his AHVB can totally change the outcome of a match, and he can stand on his own without it. Thanos... well, he's Thanos. He's not terrible, but he's not very good, unless there's some kind of secret that nobody knows about. Well, I'll say this: I, personally, have never seen Thanos used well. Of course, the whole point of my "next generation" post was to try to get people to think outside the box, so who knows... maybe there IS something Thanos can contribute... but as for being top tier, unless he magically finds a 100% unblockable super magic combo that makes the cabinet explode, not in a million years. Posted by TimeFlip on 04:13:2001 05:09 PM: I was watching how these IM infinites were set up, and most of them start up with a throw...so I was wondering if there was any way to attack after Thanos' throw. Posted by WeaponXtreme on 04:13:2001 06:41 PM: quote: Originally posted by hachihyaku I definitely see SS and Omega Red moving up in the ranking, maybe not all the way up to top tier but definitely to the point of making a statement. The only things stopping them are SS's ineffectiveness at keepaway and reliance on assists, and Omega eats it after a coil whiff. (It doesn't matter if you're an expert at retracting them, they're out there for a LONG time.) Thanos I can't see. He's gutter trash without several levels of meter. Cable's top tier because his AHVB can totally change the outcome of a match, and he can stand on his own without it. Thanos... well, he's Thanos. He's not terrible, but he's not very good, unless there's some kind of secret that nobody knows about. Well, I'll say this: I, personally, have never seen Thanos used well. Of course, the whole point of my "next generation" post was to try to get people to think outside the box, so who knows... maybe there IS something Thanos can contribute... but as for being top tier, unless he magically finds a 100% unblockable super magic combo that makes the cabinet explode, not in a million years. i dunno dude, what exactly can cable do without meter...? super jump, capture ball, super jump capture ball??? thanos can jump and do a capture too... i think the only thing that really tells them apart is that hyper beam is faster... Posted by blt on 04:13:2001 09:59 PM: woah, someone from worcester =) Posted by WeaponXtreme on 04:13:2001 10:27 PM: quote: Originally posted by blt woah, someone from worcester =) What you got against persons from Worcester!?!?!? Posted by blt on 04:15:2001 09:32 AM: nothing , i used to live there , and play at playoff arcade this smoke filled arcade with broken controllers those were the days Posted by WeaponXtreme on 04:15:2001 03:51 PM: quote: Originally posted by blt nothing , i used to live there , and play at playoff arcade this smoke filled arcade with broken controllers those were the days damn skippy... all the controllers actually function right now, dont know what happened good times indeed. Posted by SinfestBoy on 04:15:2001 05:36 PM: silver samurai is great if your playing a chip team. here is what I do with Doom(aaa)/sam(projectile)/spiral(projectile) start with doom, just do normal doom stuff, build meter. call sam + spiral alot for additional chip damage. then, with 3 levels or so, switch to Sam... now it gets fun. jump over, call doom right before you cross to other side. shuruiken. right before doom stops, jump back, shuruiken + call spiral, super shuruiken. repeat. wonderful chip. when you run out of levels or get alot of red life, switch to spiral. just play basic spiral, call sam alot. sword like hell. then when you get lots of levels. guess who you switch to???? you got it! Silver Sam! Posted by Mr. SmArTy on 04:15:2001 06:17 PM: Thanos has bad supers but some have their advantages. Soul is almost as fast as AHVB. Power has slight to little recovery as long as the ball gets blocked. Reality can be a suprise super. Space could be that one super to chip the last remanants of the opponent's life away. You just have to know when to do these supers. Posted by Truedragon on 04:15:2001 10:13 PM: Omega Red-I use him but he's definitly not tops. His has good keepaway and battery ability. He's nothing solid though. His main strat(c.hk and omega strike callback keepaway) has been really toned down thanks to wavedashing(the c.hk is hard to connect with). I find he needs two assists to do his work(a chip and aaa)this point is arguable though. He dies against Cable,Mags,Storm, he has trouble with anyone with a good rushdown.(Cammy for example) He beats Doom and nuetralizes Spiral, but that's it. For the rest of the cast(top tier) it's pretty much equal battle. As I remember now he also has some trouble with Sent(with me lots of trading of hits goes on, Sent's drones, c.hk omega strike. and when trading goes on against Sent, Sentinel always wins) Omega has adequate rushdown, with a good assist, his air dash, and his j.hp(talk about priority). He also does good at knocking assists away(if you keep them on the other side of the screen, with c.hk, and omega strike+plus assist flurries and df+hk will knock away assists, but wavedashing is the solution to that problem for the opponent) pLus lastly, Spiral does everything better than him, battery,trapping, and she's not as dependant on assists. Bottom line, he's not. He's nothing solid, has some good traps and chip games with Doom and Cyke but nothing of the likes of Spiral/Sent. He is just simply not, and the discovery of wavedashing doesn't help him much either. Thanos:As I see Cable, the only reason he is tops is thanks to his AHVBx3. Thanos's assist punishing game is not as safe and killer as Cable's AHVB, making him not top tier. Plus his overall game is not that good(compared to Cable w/aaa), even when backed up by an assist. SS:I really don't use this guy, but the same deal with Thanos, Cable is top tier because of AHVBx3 and only that. SS while he got great chipping, and good assist punishing(dhc into his lighting super, jacks assists up) but his assist punishing isn't as quick or deadly, which makes him not top tier. But I could have overlooked something(I really doubt it) I really don't use him, but I'm decided about Thanos and OR. Posted by Hustleman21 on 04:16:2001 02:03 AM: This is also a really great team stiltman can go into more detail about this ROUGE,S.S,T.BONNE(ASK STILTMAN HOW THIS GUY NAME SHERWIN USES'S IT) STILTMAN IS A PRETTY SMART GUY. Posted by Unreallystic on 04:16:2001 04:03 AM: Omega Red - my old favorite. Arguably the third best "all around character" behind storm and spiral. His heath is 90%, he does nice damamge, builds super quickly, well played can stop most super before they can connect with a well placed crouching roundhouse. His coils surprise people with their speed, and once the Omega Red player has hit a 100% synchy ratio with OR, the coils always retract. A master OR can lay waste to any non-tourney team, and he rely's on no one, but I said something key, non tourney. Blackheart and Sentinel piss on him (unforetuneatly). OR takes a lot more practice to get good with than most characters. Definately upper Teir two...but teir one is too flooded with people. Silver Samerai - no mobility. So he chips well, so does Tronne Bone, but they can't manuver well, no move that can count as an air dash for SS, no move that can counter beams, no good Anti-air, no way of protecting his asist except wasting a level. In a previous thread I read elsewhere someone brough up another weakness. The Ramai Ken, sometimes just knocks assist away, so again wasting a hard earned level. For him to make teir two in all honesty is a joke. Ryu can be played more effectively than SS Thanos - no mobility. Silver Samerais version 2.0. People underestimate his supers speed, but it is hella easy to combo into a nice 60% combo, the only problem is getting in close enough to connect a crouching short. IMO his super managment is much better than SS. Thanos is also big making him a prime target for huge combos and nasty traps. Definatly not teir one or two Peace Posted by Unreallystic on 04:16:2001 04:04 AM: quote: Originally posted by Hustleman21 This is also a really great team stiltman can go into more detail about this ROUGE,S.S,T.BONNE(ASK STILTMAN HOW THIS GUY NAME SHERWIN USES'S IT) STILTMAN IS A PRETTY SMART GUY. he probobly uses Rogue's assist into SS Ramai Ken or Flame super. The only issue with the team is no one builds super very well, something which tronne bonne and SS both need. Posted by mastermind on 04:16:2001 04:10 AM: quote: Originally posted by Unreallystic he probobly uses Rogue's assist into SS Ramai Ken or Flame super. The only issue with the team is no one builds super very well, something which tronne bonne and SS both need. Rogue Dive Kick rushdown with Tron Projectile assist = Meter for Samurai. Well, at least how Sherwin uses it. The recent Seattle results can definitely sway anyone who doesn't believe that 2nd Tier can place in tourneys. http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/sho...?threadid=12840 Posted by Nighthawk on 04:16:2001 05:05 AM: silver samurai is one of my bext characters. he is too slow Posted by The-Famouser on 04:16:2001 05:07 AM: on the subject of thanos Power Gem Combos off a lot of things Like Juggernaut punch or Sentinel ground assist. but especially w/ juggy you call him in, if the punch connects, go right into power gem( it will catch them as the fall, even OTG, then go into Reality. there goes 50+ percent of a lifebar right there. I will agree Thanos isn't top tier, but I'd like to argue that he's not a bad character either. The Famouser Posted by StiltMan on 04:16:2001 08:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by Hustleman21 This is also a really great team stiltman can go into more detail about this ROUGE,S.S,T.BONNE(ASK STILTMAN HOW THIS GUY NAME SHERWIN USES'S IT) STILTMAN IS A PRETTY SMART GUY. Heh... jumping right on the nut wagon at the first chance you get. Refresh my memory here as to how much right you have to talk... your record against me in tournaments is what, again? Zero for everything? As in, not even a single game won? Thank you, drive through. Posted by Hustleman21 on 04:17:2001 12:29 AM: Its a fucking game like I give a danm stiltman if I win or lose against your ass. I personally suck against strider doom. OK, SO SHUT THE HELL UP All times are GMT. The time now is 11:38 PM. Show all 32 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.